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Nerfing Some Hales
#16: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:58 pm 
The Silent
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About Old superjump: There is a config to enable the "old" ff2 jump, called ff2_oldjump. Not sure what it does, but I'll see.

About bad Hales: Every Hale is good, you just need to learn how to use them.

About class limitations: If someone finds a plugin, then maybe.

About multiple backstabs: Hales need to learn to spycheck.

About speedboost: Players tend to be concentrated around Gaben, leading for easy rage kills.
~Wliu
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#17: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:11 pm 
The Unknown
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(Wliu)
About Old superjump: There is a config to enable the "old" ff2 jump, called ff2_oldjump. Not sure what it does, but I'll see.

About bad Hales: Every Hale is good, you just need to learn how to use them.

About class limitations: If someone finds a plugin, then maybe.

About multiple backstabs: Hales need to learn to spycheck.

About speedboost: Players tend to be concentrated around Gaben, leading for easy rage kills.


I agree with Wliu.
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#18: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:24 pm 
Respawn in 3...2...1
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(IronLightning)
I agree with Kairen on this one. I don't play Saxton Hale for a reason. The variety of hales makes this mode (in my opinion) better. Some things to say though.
1. Robo-Cyphosis is not under-powered. he has a significant HP buff, super speed, and a very big jump. Though best played on big maps like nucleus, he is my favorite for getting them face-stabs.
2. Gaben is one of the best hales to play if you're pro. I was playing oil-rig once and the hale walked forward, turned around, and BAM(F) (sorry had to make that joke.)! he killed all the spies in the first 2 minutes. he is fast enough to reach a Demo-man, and can take down other classes with rage.
3. This time I sort-of agree with Jenkins, because the shotgun can get pretty bad on maps like Warebloom. And Lawd has to be too pro and inspire a spy rush and medic rush. He is very good against other classes besides engineer you know. the rockets can 1. Kill soldiers 2. Destroy shields and 3. get less damage from melee sources (as far as i'm concerned)
4. Giving him Uber and more damage? Very original. How about gentle spy? He does more damage and ubers too. the only difference would be that Robo could super-jump, go faster, and have more hp than gentle. (and by the way this makes him sound better than gentle spy right?)
5. Pretty bad grammar. Read over it please and remember what you learned when you were 9.
#1. He's got a large target of a body and moves a little slowly. (He's got a large body which makes him an easier target for classes. He also moves slower than other hales.[these () mean edits])
#2. Robo-Cyphosis is one of THEE (Okay WTF were you born in Europe during the medieval age?)
#3. His speed could be boosted in order to be compensate for the body or give him more range. (speed gives him range. right....)
#4. I'm a grammar Nazi. Hate me if you dare.
#5. That's about it, all the other one's are fine. (Yes about this one... read the sentence with the *one is* and tell me if it sounds right.)
Random Crap
1. I don't remember but 4-7 shots is totally a lot of shots dude.
2. Kairen, whenever I play FF2, there is absolutely no crowds. Only ubering medics and spies rushing rocket. (BTW, I think killing everyone in his path is a exaggeration right? at most it's 8-10 people, since Gaben has limited hits in that rage duration.)
AND LAWD I'M POSTING THIS AT 7:15, YOUR FROM THE FUTURE BRO.

Ok, this might take a bit.

I highlighted all of your grammatical errors and snide comments in red and green respectively.

First off, capitalize your sentences. Especially if you're going to call another person's grammar below grade school level. That rule is one of the first things that a person learns when writing.

Second, the word "though" is used to introduce an opposing condition in that context. There is no disagreement with the two clauses, and the word "though" should be omitted. The comma should be followed by an "and" or replaced by a period, as the two elements of that sentence are both independent clauses. This means that they need a conjunction to be connected, or they can stand alone as a sentence.

Third, there should be a comma placed after introductory elements.

Fourth, the "and" in that sentence should be removed. You're not connecting the statement to anything, and the statement can't be a logical addition to anything you said earlier the way it is now. This renders both of the possible uses for and the way you're using null. Then there is the tricky tense disagreement in your use of the phrase "has to". Since you brought up a situation that can and will happen, the sentence must be in future tense, meaning that the phrase "has to" needs to be changed to "will have to". You could also eliminate the "rush" after "spy" as it is redundant, but that is a stylistic suggestion rather than a correction.

Fifth, commas separate an aside from the rest of the sentence. There should be a comma before "you know".

Sixth, instead of numbers you should use commas. You're describing the uses of the rockets using a mash-up of list and set format. Either exclude the "and" or replace the numbers with commas. "Gets" as you use it, is not a word. The word "get" is also an intransitive verb, meaning that it can't fit into that sentence. The proper word to use would be "takes". Moreover, the statement should be changed to "allows the Hale to take less damage" as the rockets are not what is receiving the damage.

Seventh, "one's" doesn't need an apostrophe as it's not possessive, it's plural.

Eighth, "is" refers to a singular noun while "are" refers to a plural noun. Therefore, you should have wrote, "there are absolutely no crowds"

Ninth, "has limited hits" should be changed to "has a limited number of hits".

Finally, "your" is the possessive form of "you", while "you're" is the contraction of "you are". You should've said, "YOU'RE FROM THE FUTURE".

Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.
My hips feel like I tried to cha cha my way down Giant's Causeway...
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#19: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:32 pm 
Poptart Bandit
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Level 7
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(Mr. Disposable)
(IronLightning)
I agree with Kairen on this one. I don't play Saxton Hale for a reason. The variety of hales makes this mode (in my opinion) better. Some things to say though.
1. Robo-Cyphosis is not under-powered. he has a significant HP buff, super speed, and a very big jump. Though best played on big maps like nucleus, he is my favorite for getting them face-stabs.
2. Gaben is one of the best hales to play if you're pro. I was playing oil-rig once and the hale walked forward, turned around, and BAM(F) (sorry had to make that joke.)! he killed all the spies in the first 2 minutes. he is fast enough to reach a Demo-man, and can take down other classes with rage.
3. This time I sort-of agree with Jenkins, because the shotgun can get pretty bad on maps like Warebloom. And Lawd has to be too pro and inspire a spy rush and medic rush. He is very good against other classes besides engineer you know. the rockets can 1. Kill soldiers 2. Destroy shields and 3. get less damage from melee sources (as far as i'm concerned)
4. Giving him Uber and more damage? Very original. How about gentle spy? He does more damage and ubers too. the only difference would be that Robo could super-jump, go faster, and have more hp than gentle. (and by the way this makes him sound better than gentle spy right?)
5. Pretty bad grammar. Read over it please and remember what you learned when you were 9.
#1. He's got a large target of a body and moves a little slowly. (He's got a large body which makes him an easier target for classes. He also moves slower than other hales.[these () mean edits])
#2. Robo-Cyphosis is one of THEE (Okay WTF were you born in Europe during the medieval age?)
#3. His speed could be boosted in order to be compensate for the body or give him more range. (speed gives him range. right....)
#4. I'm a grammar Nazi. Hate me if you dare.
#5. That's about it, all the other one's are fine. (Yes about this one... read the sentence with the *one is* and tell me if it sounds right.)
Random Crap
1. I don't remember but 4-7 shots is totally a lot of shots dude.
2. Kairen, whenever I play FF2, there is absolutely no crowds. Only ubering medics and spies rushing rocket. (BTW, I think killing everyone in his path is a exaggeration right? at most it's 8-10 people, since Gaben has limited hits in that rage duration.)
AND LAWD I'M POSTING THIS AT 7:15, YOUR FROM THE FUTURE BRO.

Ok, this might take a bit.

I highlighted all of your grammatical errors and snide comments in red and green respectively.

First off, capitalize your sentences. Especially if you're going to call another person's grammar below grade school level. That rule is one of the first things that a person learns when writing.

Second, the word "though" is used to introduce an opposing condition in that context. There is no disagreement with the two clauses, and the word "though" should be omitted. The comma should be followed by an "and" or replaced by a period, as the two elements of that sentence are both independent clauses. This means that they need a conjunction to be connected, or they can stand alone as a sentence.

Third, there should be a comma placed after introductory elements.

Fourth, the "and" in that sentence should be removed. You're not connecting the statement to anything, and the statement can't be a logical addition to anything you said earlier the way it is now. This renders both of the possible uses for and the way you're using null. Then there is the tricky tense disagreement in your use of the phrase "has to". Since you brought up a situation that can and will happen, the sentence must be in future tense, meaning that the phrase "has to" needs to be changed to "will have to". You could also eliminate the "rush" after "spy" as it is redundant, but that is a stylistic suggestion rather than a correction.

Fifth, commas separate an aside from the rest of the sentence. There should be a comma before "you know".

Sixth, instead of numbers you should use commas. You're describing the uses of the rockets using a mash-up of list and set format. Either exclude the "and" or replace the numbers with commas. "Gets" as you use it, is not a word. The word "get" is also an intransitive verb, meaning that it can't fit into that sentence. The proper word to use would be "takes". Moreover, the statement should be changed to "allows the Hale to take less damage" as the rockets are not what is receiving the damage.

Seventh, "one's" doesn't need an apostrophe as it's not possessive, it's plural.

Eighth, "is" refers to a singular noun while "are" refers to a plural noun. Therefore, you should have wrote, "there are absolutely no crowds"

Ninth, "has limited hits" should be changed to "has a limited number of hits".

Finally, "your" is the possessive form of "you", while "you're" is the contraction of "you are". You should've said, "YOU'RE FROM THE FUTURE".

Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.

:evil: This thread is for constructive discussion on FF2 and the various Hales of FF2. I've already reprimanded Ironlightning for (as you put it), being a dick, and I would very much appreciate it if you and everyone else would refrain from turning this thread into a flame war.
This WAS one of the first threads I had seen that was being constructive and following the use(s) it was written for, but that ended pretty quickly.

If I see another person starting flame wars, insulting, or in general being an unnecessary dick on this thread, you're going to have to answer to me and my grumpy dumpiness.


Carry on with the FF2 stuff.


(Grumpy dumpiness is Halolas' phrase. Courtesy of Halolas.)
Last edited by Kairen Bellatorus on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#20: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:22 am 
The Noseless One
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As soon as 1.07 goes stable, we will release our updates as well. However, because of steam pipe dramatically approaching we will probably wait until after that converts everything through. Although it shouldnt really affect anything on our half, it is just precautionary measures to not break anything. I will finish up my boss and release it along side the fixes Wliu has provided for the boss and the others whom actually need a buff or a nerf. Testing will proceed after I debug my server from invisible models after testing out things. We shall work on our to do list for now and do our best to balance the bosses. There may also include a few plugins possibly the class limitations but I myself haven't had any luck in doing so because on the top of priorities. Regardless most of the update should be done late this month or early next month.
The Silent Assassin
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#21: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:59 am 
The Saikyo Master
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(LAWD VAWLDAWMAWRT)
As soon as 1.07 goes stable, we will release our updates as well. However, because of steam pipe dramatically approaching we will probably wait until after that converts everything through. Although it shouldnt really affect anything on our half, it is just precautionary measures to not break anything. I will finish up my boss and release it along side the fixes Wliu has provided for the boss and the others whom actually need a buff or a nerf. Testing will proceed after I debug my server from invisible models after testing out things. We shall work on our to do list for now and do our best to balance the bosses. There may also include a few plugins possibly the class limitations but I myself haven't had any luck in doing so because on the top of priorities. Regardless most of the update should be done late this month or early next month.

And then you're going to help me with my boss, right? Riiiiight?
Eh.
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#22: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:34 am 
Clickwork
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(Mr. Disposable)
Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.

Good job.

In addition, I feel like Gaben is more difficult to play against lower numbers of players because he gets less rage triggers. It's very easy to get all of 23 other players. Is there anything that can be done about this? Maybe change Gaben's health formula?
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#23: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:58 am 
The Hero of Chaos
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(ChrisMiuchiz)
(Mr. Disposable)
Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.

Good job.

In addition, I feel like Gaben is more difficult to play against lower numbers of players because he gets less rage triggers. It's very easy to get all of 23 other players. Is there anything that can be done about this? Maybe change Gaben's health formula?

He does get lower rage build in a small populated server, possibly either boosting up a bit or health formula should help
As long as you don't let something you love die,
You'll never have to say a final goodbye.
~Tommy "Havik" Souvannasinh
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#24: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:04 pm 
FIGHT ME
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(ChrisMiuchiz)
(Mr. Disposable)
Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.

Good job.

In addition, I feel like Gaben is more difficult to play against lower numbers of players because he gets less rage triggers. It's very easy to get all of 23 other players. Is there anything that can be done about this? Maybe change Gaben's health formula?

He does get lower rage build in a small populated server, possibly either boosting up a bit or health formula should help


Is there a way to change the rage growth on the amount of players?
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#25: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:43 pm 
The Hero of Chaos
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(PenguinBond)
(HavikBoom)
(ChrisMiuchiz)
(Mr. Disposable)
Basically, those who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.
Don't be a dick.

Good job.

In addition, I feel like Gaben is more difficult to play against lower numbers of players because he gets less rage triggers. It's very easy to get all of 23 other players. Is there anything that can be done about this? Maybe change Gaben's health formula?

He does get lower rage build in a small populated server, possibly either boosting up a bit or health formula should help


Is there a way to change the rage growth on the amount of players?

Not sure if it's possible, but if so, it can be an option
As long as you don't let something you love die,
You'll never have to say a final goodbye.
~Tommy "Havik" Souvannasinh
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#26: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:54 pm 
The Silent
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Gaben's rage trigger is incredibly high right now: 5100 damage in order to activate rage. When there's ~5 people or less, Gaben won't even get to use rage. We could halve this or something.
~Wliu
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#27: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:46 pm 
The Unknown
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Another thing I've noticed, Hales are getting repetitive. Usually, there will be three of the same hale in a row before a new one is selected.
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#28: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:25 pm 
Poptart Bandit
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Another thing I've noticed, Hales are getting repetitive. Usually, there will be three of the same hale in a row before a new one is selected.

Glad someone brought that up outside the server.
Wliu/Chris/LAWD, why is that?
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#29: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:39 pm 
The Hero of Chaos
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(Old Man Jenkins)
Another thing I've noticed, Hales are getting repetitive. Usually, there will be three of the same hale in a row before a new one is selected.

Usually suppose to be a random thing despite the odds of a same boss getting picked several times in a row, I don't believe there is anything that prevent that, but I do know that adding a plugin to choose bosses is not a great idea.
As long as you don't let something you love die,
You'll never have to say a final goodbye.
~Tommy "Havik" Souvannasinh
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#30: Re: Nerfing Some Hales
Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:17 am 
The Noseless One
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(HavikBoom)
(Old Man Jenkins)
Another thing I've noticed, Hales are getting repetitive. Usually, there will be three of the same hale in a row before a new one is selected.

Usually suppose to be a random thing despite the odds of a same boss getting picked several times in a row, I don't believe there is anything that prevent that, but I do know that adding a plugin to choose bosses is not a great idea.

I've looked throughout the actual random system of choosing and it's not really anything we can handle. It's just the random system going derp every once and a while. Slightly random in itself for those events to occur having the same Hale multiple times. I can look more into the randomized system, but I don't think there is anything that can be done about it.
The Silent Assassin
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